Grass Is Always Greener...

[DJL]

I read a number of posts where individuals are having second thoughts. Given the tortuous path Lucid has been on regarding production and quality issues, I can not blame them. This is especially underscored by the various issues that others have raised with their delivered cars. While it certainly appears to me that Lucid has worked hard to address their production and QA issues resulting in great strides, the forum does present a number of individuals who are still having problems. This generates second thoughts with those who are frustrated by the time it take to get their car and may turn away potential clients who read this forum My suggestion to those who are rethinking their confirmed orders that they careful vet the alternatives they may be thinking about. Based on the vetting of a number of cars I have done, I have discovered that virtually all of the EVs that I looked into, even the ones that have been in production for while (i.e., Tesla), are having all different kinds of issues. Some issues appear across the model, other are specific to what apprears to be just a few of the cars of that model. Thus, the title of this thread: The Grass Is Always Greener...

Additionally, I would like to share this interesting new discovery. I just had my charger electrical line installed today and in discussion with the electrician, he shared a problem that is not talked about which is happening with various EVs. Apparently, given a fairly recent change at the Federal level, state fire codes have been modified to require that the newly installed 50 amp breakers include a GFI function. He said that this GFI on the breaker at times reacts with the GFI that is built into the mobile chargers which causes the breaker to be thrown. He has had to return to a number of installs that he or other electrians have done to create a work around. It this happends to any of you, talk to you installer to see what can be done.

 

[JerseyStrong]

Thanks for this and a great caution. For some though the question might simply be this: If the Federal tax Incentive is dead, do I spend $7,500 more than I anticipated knowing that 1) we will probably not any time soon see an Air at the price point we secured with our early reservation; 2) there is no competitor with its range/charging speed at this time; and 3) the Air is undergirded with the most advanced EV technology on the market. Greener on the other side might simply mean the decision was driven by the economics of another EV costing less.

 

[LucidNC]

Thanks for the info .. perfect timing... I'm having a Chargepoint Flex installed today .. I'll make sure to watch for the GFI issue.

As for greener pastures .. I agree. I have 4 EV reservations with 3 confirmed orders; one of which is the Lucid Air GT. As for the confirmed EVs: the Rivian R1S reservation was made in mid 2021 and the communication from their team has been less than satisfactory; I still have no idea when I can expect it. The Fisker Ocean is slated to begin production on Nov 17, so I don't expect a delivery date update until after 11/17 (but so far they've been very communicative so far). As for the Lucid Air, I confirmed my Air on 5/31 and it was delivered this past Monday (9/19) .. exceeding my order-to-delivery expectations.

That said, there were a number of issues; most, if not all, were post-production problems and I had to reject the delivery. I now expect it to be re-delivered early next week. The important thing for me, however, is that the Lucid folks have been fantastic and in constant communication; a key for me. This is a big departure from my experience with Tesla (e.g.). I've sold my 2020 Model Y in 2021, but when I first received it in June 2020, it had a long list of issues (build quality, malfunctions, glitches, etc.). I believe that in the first 1-2 months, we had the Model Y (in our possession) only 2 or 3 weeks. Given the COVID shutdown, I was willing to cut Tesla a break, but the lack of communication was terrible (and we have a Sales/Service center by us). Eventually, that was the deal breaker and we opted to move on (for now).

I hope that Lucid continues to provide a Luxury experience (accentuated by clear, constant, and consistent communication) as it increases deliveries.

 

[Bishop]

If the charger has GFI then replace the 50A breaker with a non-GFI breaker.

 

[DeaneG]

... in discussion with the electrician, he shared a problem that is not talked about which is happening with various EVs. Apparently, given a fairly recent change at the Federal level, state fire codes have been modified to require that the newly installed 50 amp breakers include a GFI function. He said that this GFI on the breaker at times reacts with the GFI that is built into the mobile chargers which causes the breaker to be thrown. He has had to return to a number of installs that he or other electrians have done to create a work around. ...

The National Electrical Code was changed in 2020 to mandate GFCI protection on all garage outlets up to 250V. This includes the typical 14-50 outlet that has been used in the past for EVSE installations. Many but not all localities have adopted the 2020 code version. It requires GFCI circuit or breaker on 240V outlets, GFCI breakers used with an EVSE will nuisance trip due to circuitry required to be present in all EVSEs. The only legal (and safe) solution is to hardwire the EVSE instead of plugging it in. By hardwiring your EVSE, you get safer, problem-free operation and potentially noticeably faster vehicle charging speed, at similar cost to a plug-in installation. I've had four different EVSEs, am about ready to install a fifth for the Air, am a career electrical engineer, and will never arrange for a plug-in installation again.

 

[Drendino]

Thanks for the info .. perfect timing... I'm having a Chargepoint Flex installed today .. I'll make sure to watch for the GFI issue.

As for greener pastures .. I agree. I have 4 EV reservations with 3 confirmed orders; one of which is the Lucid Air GT. As for the confirmed EVs: the Rivian R1S reservation was made in mid 2021 and the communication from their team has been less than satisfactory; I still have no idea when I can expect it. The Fisker Ocean is slated to begin production on Nov 17, so I don't expect a delivery date update until after 11/17 (but so far they've been very communicative so far). As for the Lucid Air, I confirmed my Air on 5/31 and it was delivered this past Monday (9/19) .. exceeding my order-to-delivery expectations.

That said, there were a number of issues; most, if not all, were post-production problems and I had to reject the delivery. I now expect it to be re-delivered early next week. The important thing for me, however, is that the Lucid folks have been fantastic and in constant communication; a key for me. This is a big departure from my experience with Tesla (e.g.). I've sold my 2020 Model Y in 2021, but when I first received it in June 2020, it had a long list of issues (build quality, malfunctions, glitches, etc.). I believe that in the first 1-2 months, we had the Model Y (in our possession) only 2 or 3 weeks. Given the COVID shutdown, I was willing to cut Tesla a break, but the lack of communication was terrible (and we have a Sales/Service center by us). Eventually, that was the deal breaker and we opted to move on (for now).

I hope that Lucid continues to provide a Luxury experience (accentuated by clear, constant, and consistent communication) as it increases deliveries.

I’m scheduled to receive my R1S early next year and I feel confident that I will receive the tax credit due to Rivian’s binding contract that they sent out. With the tax credit, I’m saving $26,000 off of what it would cost me if I ordered a Rivian today, which would be delivered at the end of 2023. Here are a couple of photos of my order and a mock order from today. With these savings it’s impossible for me to turn down the R1S, regardless of Rivian’s poor communication. People who complain about Lucid’s delivery times clearly don’t have a Rivian R1S on order.

 

[LucidNC]

I’m scheduled to receive my R1S early next year and I feel confident that I will receive the tax credit due to Rivian’s binding contract that they sent out. With the tax credit, I’m saving $26,000 off of what it would cost me if I ordered a Rivian today, which would be delivered at the end of 2023. Here are a couple of photos of my order and a mock order from today. With these savings it’s impossible for me to turn down the R1S, regardless of Rivian’s poor communication. People who complain about Lucid’s delivery times clearly don’t have a Rivian R1S on order.

lol .. true .. the Lucid order-to-delivery timeframe is w/o reproach (comparatively)
The R1S is my wife's order .. and she is keeping it (we already upgraded to more expensive trim in January so an not to delay delivery and signed the binding contract prior to the signing of the bill). When did they give you a delivery estimate? We haven't heard anything since March (which was a vague sometime in 2023) .. though the CS rep told my wife last week that they'll be sending out an email by the end of this month with a potential delivery window.

 

[hellolucid]

as an owner i concur with OP. the car is great to drive. i don't have a lot of car experience but this surely is the best car i have driven. my complaints were addressed promptly (dirty interior upon delivery and some other minor issues that i don't even recall now) and the only other issue is squeaky backseat and it's not bothering me to have an immediate service visit.

that being said, I worry about the 12v battery issue. i hope Lucid issues a fix for that soon. they have addressed most of the major issues reported by users so i believe they can fix this as well.

 

[Drendino]

lol .. true .. the Lucid order-to-delivery timeframe is w/o reproach (comparatively)
The R1S is my wife's order .. and she is keeping it (we already upgraded to more expensive trim in January so an not to delay delivery and signed the binding contract prior to the signing of the bill). When did they give you a delivery estimate? We haven't heard anything since March (which was a vague sometime in 2023) .. though the CS rep told my wife last week that they'll be sending out an email by the end of this month with a potential delivery window.

After Rivian went public and finally came clean on delivery dates, they sent an email to all reservation holders with the true delivery estimate window. My original delivery date was February, 2021 but they were giving false dates prior to the IPO in order to create hype. Obviously it backfired completely, since the market punished them. I guess I should have sold at 150 per share? Lol

 

[larry]

The only legal (and safe) solution is to hardwire the EVSE instead of plugging it in. By hardwiring your EVSE, you get safer, problem-free operation and potentially noticeably faster vehicle charging speed, at similar cost to a plug-in installation.

FWIW I just had the Chargepoint Home Flex installed last month and the manual/installation instructions explicitly say something like "If code requires an outlet be put on a GFI circuit then you should hardwire the device". In my case the electrician was unaware the GFI would be a problem but by reading the instructions everything was fine.
Plus by hardwiring I get slightly faster speeds (~45 miles added/hour).

 

[Bobby]

Thanks for the info .. perfect timing... I'm having a Chargepoint Flex installed today .. I'll make sure to watch for the GFI issue.

As for greener pastures .. I agree. I have 4 EV reservations with 3 confirmed orders; one of which is the Lucid Air GT. As for the confirmed EVs: the Rivian R1S reservation was made in mid 2021 and the communication from their team has been less than satisfactory; I still have no idea when I can expect it. The Fisker Ocean is slated to begin production on Nov 17, so I don't expect a delivery date update until after 11/17 (but so far they've been very communicative so far). As for the Lucid Air, I confirmed my Air on 5/31 and it was delivered this past Monday (9/19) .. exceeding my order-to-delivery expectations.

That said, there were a number of issues; most, if not all, were post-production problems and I had to reject the delivery. I now expect it to be re-delivered early next week. The important thing for me, however, is that the Lucid folks have been fantastic and in constant communication; a key for me. This is a big departure from my experience with Tesla (e.g.). I've sold my 2020 Model Y in 2021, but when I first received it in June 2020, it had a long list of issues (build quality, malfunctions, glitches, etc.). I believe that in the first 1-2 months, we had the Model Y (in our possession) only 2 or 3 weeks. Given the COVID shutdown, I was willing to cut Tesla a break, but the lack of communication was terrible (and we have a Sales/Service center by us). Eventually, that was the deal breaker and we opted to move on (for now).

I hope that Lucid continues to provide a Luxury experience (accentuated by clear, constant, and consistent communication) as it increases deliveries.

What was the problem that was bad enough to require a rejection of the delivery?

 

[Coho]

Additionally, I would like to share this interesting new discovery. I just had my charger electrical line installed today and in discussion with the electrician, he shared a problem that is not talked about which is happening with various EVs. Apparently, given a fairly recent change at the Federal level, state fire codes have been modified to require that the newly installed 50 amp breakers include a GFI function. He said that this GFI on the breaker at times reacts with the GFI that is built into the mobile chargers which causes the breaker to be thrown. He has had to return to a number of installs that he or other electrians have done to create a work around. It this happends to any of you, talk to you installer to see what can be done.

I has the Charge Point installed this week and we hard wired it specifically becasue of the GFCI issue. Should be well known to electricians. I was definitely told not to try to install the protective circuits in series. Plus Charge Point specifically tells you not to.

 

[LucidNC]

What was the problem that was bad enough to require a rejection of the delivery?

Ding/Dent on the driver door, chipped front windshield, wrong wheel size, lower door trim peeling off of car, etc. That said, the Lucid folks have been great with updates and options ... as soon as they locate the correct wheels/tires, it'll be re-delivered .. should be back this coming week.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Ding/Dent on the driver door, chipped front windshield, wrong wheel size, lower door trim peeling off of car, etc. That said, the Lucid folks have been great with updates and options ... as soon as they locate the correct wheels/tires, it'll be re-delivered .. should be back this coming week.

Someone dinged the two passenger doors on my BMW 530e. They are aluminum and don't repair properly. The body shop had to replace both door skins. So...assuming that the door is aluminum, make sure they either replace the skin or show you the repair and you are very satisfied with it.

 

[LucidNC]

Someone dinged the two passenger doors on my BMW 530e. They are aluminum and don't repair properly. The body shop had to replace both door skins. So...assuming that the door is aluminum, make sure they either replace the skin or show you the repair and you are very satisfied with it.

wow .. good to know. thanks

 

[SDHacker]

The National Electrical Code was changed in 2020 to mandate GFCI protection on all garage outlets up to 250V. This includes the typical 14-50 outlet that has been used in the past for EVSE installations. Many but not all localities have adopted the 2020 code version. It requires GFCI circuit or breaker on 240V outlets, GFCI breakers used with an EVSE will nuisance trip due to circuitry required to be present in all EVSEs. The only legal (and safe) solution is to hardwire the EVSE instead of plugging it in. By hardwiring your EVSE, you get safer, problem-free operation and potentially noticeably faster vehicle charging speed, at similar cost to a plug-in installation. I've had four different EVSEs, am about ready to install a fifth for the Air, am a career electrical engineer, and will never arrange for a plug-in installation again.

Well, thanks for tossing out my low cost plan of using the Lucid provided EVSE plugged into a 14-50. Doesn't look like the Lucid EVSE can be hardwired. Looking at Tom Moloughney's website along with others, the Grizzl-e is highly rated and can be hardwired. Is it common thought here that Lucid will implement timed charging at some point in the car? Since I don't plan on charging much at home initially, I'm staying on my tiered electric plan rather than switch to TOU until I see what my charging habits are. Right now, I'm planning on getting the "dumb" grizzl-e with the hope that if I migrate to TOU, Lucid will have implemented charging based on time by then. Is that reasonable?

The smart grizzl-e would be my 2nd choice but it relies on open source apps being developed and only 1 app is approved so far. 3rd is a toss up between Chargepoint, Wallbox, and Juicebox. Opinions are welcome.

 

[borski]

Well, thanks for tossing out my low cost plan of using the Lucid provided EVSE plugged into a 14-50. Doesn't look like the Lucid EVSE can be hardwired. Looking at Tom Moloughney's website along with others, the Grizzl-e is highly rated and can be hardwired. Is it common thought here that Lucid will implement timed charging at some point in the car? Since I don't plan on charging much at home initially, I'm staying on my tiered electric plan rather than switch to TOU until I see what my charging habits are. Right now, I'm planning on getting the "dumb" grizzl-e with the hope that if I migrate to TOU, Lucid will have implemented charging based on time by then. Is that reasonable?

The smart grizzl-e would be my 2nd choice but it relies on open source apps being developed and only 1 app is approved so far. 3rd is a toss up between Chargepoint, Wallbox, and Juicebox. Opinions are welcome.

Any of the last three you mentioned will be fine. I’ve had no issues with my Wallbox.

 

[DeaneG]

Well, thanks for tossing out my low cost plan of using the Lucid provided EVSE plugged into a 14-50. Doesn't look like the Lucid EVSE can be hardwired. Looking at Tom Moloughney's website along with others, the Grizzl-e is highly rated and can be hardwired. Is it common thought here that Lucid will implement timed charging at some point in the car? Since I don't plan on charging much at home initially, I'm staying on my tiered electric plan rather than switch to TOU until I see what my charging habits are. Right now, I'm planning on getting the "dumb" grizzl-e with the hope that if I migrate to TOU, Lucid will have implemented charging based on time by then. Is that reasonable?

The smart grizzl-e would be my 2nd choice but it relies on open source apps being developed and only 1 app is approved so far. 3rd is a toss up between Chargepoint, Wallbox, and Juicebox. Opinions are welcome.

Lucid's EVSE is intended to be hardwired. Conduit entry is from the bottom.

 

[SDHacker]

Lucid's EVSE is intended to be hardwired. Conduit entry is from the bottom.

We're talking about the one that comes with the car in the trunk right? I'm not interested in the bi-directional one coming out soon.

 

[DeaneG]

We're talking about the one that comes with the car in the trunk right? I'm not interested in the bi-directional one coming out soon.

Ah, right. Lucid's wall-mounted EVSE is intended to be hardwired. Their mobile cable EVSE is intended to be plugged into a 14-50 outlet. Check the circuit breaker on your 14-50 outlet - if it doesn't say "GFCI" then you will be good to go with the mobile cable solution. Not all localities have adopted the 2020 NEC yet, so not all require GFCI on 14-50 outlets. But if you do decide you want to charge at home, it's hard to beat a proper hardwired installation of a wall-mounted EVSE. Using a mobile cable EVSE every day can be cumbersome unless you arrange for cable hanging and a plug holster.