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socktucker said:
💯 it’s been 10 years and FSD still sucks
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You have obviously not driven the latest version of FSD on a Tesla. I was an outspoken critic of it on my 2017 MS. It was terrible. On my 2026 MY it is nothing short of a revelation. Since I’ve used it, it has not made a single mistake except for a rare navigation error which really has nothing to do with FSD. It has negotiated complex routes with traffic circles as well as virtually anything else I’ve thrown at it. Friends have been utterly amazed not only at its accuracy, but its smoothness. Unless I tell someone it’s on FSD, they have no idea unless they watch me from the back.

So you couldn’t be more wrong to think ‘it still sucks’.
 
ke2 said:
I think they dropped more like $5B on LIV so more than they've dropped on LCID I think.
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What I read is that they spent $5B but got back 2/3rds of that in revenues, for a $1.4B net loss.

Either way though, it's a big number.
 
Lucken said:
You have obviously not driven the latest version of FSD on a Tesla. I was an outspoken critic of it on my 2017 MS. It was terrible. On my 2026 MY it is nothing short of a revelation. Since I’ve used it, it has not made a single mistake except for a rare navigation error which really has nothing to do with FSD. It has negotiated complex routes with traffic circles as well as virtually anything else I’ve thrown at it. Friends have been utterly amazed not only at its accuracy, but its smoothness. Unless I tell someone it’s on FSD, they have no idea unless they watch me from the back.

So you couldn’t be more wrong to think ‘it still sucks’.
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I think he means FSD sucks in the way that it’s not really FSD but level 2. It’s nowhere safe to be true FSD. Yeah, it is better than a few years ago, but, you still need eyes on the road, ready to take over and more importantly, Tesla does not take liability in an accident…..mmmm…..I wonder why……not to mention the redacted accident data to protect themselves
 
Lucken said:
You have obviously not driven the latest version of FSD on a Tesla. I was an outspoken critic of it on my 2017 MS. It was terrible. On my 2026 MY it is nothing short of a revelation. Since I’ve used it, it has not made a single mistake except for a rare navigation error which really has nothing to do with FSD. It has negotiated complex routes with traffic circles as well as virtually anything else I’ve thrown at it. Friends have been utterly amazed not only at its accuracy, but its smoothness. Unless I tell someone it’s on FSD, they have no idea unless they watch me from the back.

So you couldn’t be more wrong to think ‘it still sucks’.
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I have a Tesla.

Maybe its geographic because it sucks here. Its vastly superior to Lucid, but it still sucks.
 
socktucker said:
I have a Tesla.

Maybe its geographic because it sucks here. Its vastly superior to Lucid, but it still sucks.
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I actually used it for 5 minutes, got annoyed and just drove on my own. If I have to keep my eyes on the road, I’m driving.
 
Winteroff and co really did a number on it

They kept producing and spending without demand creating a loss of 1.4 billion in a single quarter. How can you spend that much , just because it’s Saudi money? And not to forget the crappy software they released with the Gravity last year. Damaged the brand!

Great job destroying investor sentiment. No wonder they told him and the CFO to pack bags. Good riddance!
 
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dbsb3233 said:
Some, but they've been able to keep most of it flowing between their pipelines to the Red Sea and with help from our military that kept a lot more tankers quietly moving than was initially reported. They are down about a third in volume but they more than made up for it in higher margins. Profits rose 33%.
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Before the war 6m barrels per day, since July under 2 m barrels per day.
 
gaskiller said:
I think he means FSD sucks in the way that it’s not really FSD but level 2. It’s nowhere safe to be true FSD. Yeah, it is better than a few years ago, but, you still need eyes on the road, ready to take over and more importantly, Tesla does not take liability in an accident…..mmmm…..I wonder why……not to mention the redacted accident data to protect themselves
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I haven’t had to intervene once. For me it’s as close to any definition of FSD as I’ll ever need. I honestly don’t consider you to be anything even approaching an objective assessor of anything Tesla, I’ve read enough of your posts to come to that determination. ;)
 
socktucker said:
I have a Tesla.

Maybe its geographic because it sucks here. Its vastly superior to Lucid, but it still sucks.
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It must be, but it’s interesting that my experience doesn’t seem to be so unique as I read other owner’s experiences in other parts of the country.

We were headed back from the Hamptons on the weekend and headed in to a setting sun. Because of the low sun angle, some smears on the windshield became visible. Without any intervention on my part, the FSD automatically ‘saw’ the streaks and initiated a few washer/wipes to clean it. I found that pretty amazing.
 
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Pragmatic said:
Before the war 6m barrels per day, since July under 2 m barrels per day.
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Lots of conflicting info out there. When I looked earlier I saw down a third. Now I'm seeing two sources say they exported 3.2M/day in August.

I'm not seeing anything saying under 2M. But sources seem all over the map.
 
gaskiller said:
Winteroff and co really did a number on it

They kept producing and spending without demand creating a loss of 1.4 billion in a single quarter. How can you spend that much , just because it’s Saudi money? And not to forget the crappy software they released with the Gravity last year. Damaged the brand!

Great job destroying investor sentiment. No wonder they told him and the CFO to pack bags. Good riddance!
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It’s easy to scapegoat Marc Winterhoff and others. The history and ownership structure suggests that the board is far more complicit and involved in decision making. When a company is on its third CEO in 18 months and has turned over its entire leadership structure it points to problems in the board room. And it’s distinctly possible that prior leaders failed in executing a strategy that was conceived by the company’s primary funding source and doomed from the onset. Winterhoff didn’t ascend to the CEO role, he was thrust into it through the abrupt departure of Rawilnson. And a year and a half later those details are still very murky.
 
Lucken said:
I haven’t had to intervene once. For me it’s as close to any definition of FSD as I’ll ever need. I honestly don’t consider you to be anything even approaching an objective assessor of anything Tesla, I’ve read enough of your posts to come to that determination. ;)
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Do you understand what FSD means? Don’t believe everything a billionaire tells you….
 
Northpointe said:
It’s easy to scapegoat Marc Winterhoff and others. The history and ownership structure suggests that the board is far more complicit and involved in decision making. When a company is on its third CEO in 18 months and has turned over its entire leadership structure it points to problems in the board room. And it’s distinctly possible that prior leaders failed in executing a strategy that was conceived by the company’s primary funding source and doomed from the onset. Winterhoff didn’t ascend to the CEO role, he was thrust into it through the abrupt departure of Rawilnson. And a year and a half later those details are still very murky.
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Gravity release and service cuts, continued production in light of reduced demand leading to a wasteful spend if 1.4 billion in a single quarter. The board does not dictate day to day operations.

Of course, Rawlinson should get some blame for the token production in Dec 2024….

He has a lot of blame on his shoulders.
 
gaskiller said:
Gravity release and service cuts, continued production in light of reduced demand leading to a wasteful spend if 1.4 billion in a single quarter. The board does not dictate day to day operations.

Of course, Rawlinson should get some blame for the token production in Dec 2024….

He has a lot of blame on his shoulders.
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This is not your average board and ownership structure. The PIF is not a passive investor writing blank checks. And the number of CEO changes underscores that. Turqi Alnowaiser may not be a household name like Elon Musk, or have the notoriety of RJ Scaringe, but his influence on the company and its strategies may be just as significant. And if you don’t believe that I’ve got a manufacturing plant in the KSA to sell you.
 
Northpointe said:
This is not your average board and ownership structure. The PIF is not a passive investor writing blank checks. And the number of CEO changes underscores that. Turqi Alnowaiser may not be a household name like Elon Musk, or have the notoriety of RJ Scaringe, but his influence on the company and its strategies may be just as significant. And if you don’t believe that I’ve got a manufacturing plant in the KSA to sell you.
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Lucid's total inventory (all models, valued in dollars, not vehicle count) rose sharply through 2025 and into 2026: about $408M at end of 2024, $713M by June 2025, $1.11B by end of 2025, and peaking around $1.47B in Q1 2026 before easing slightly to $1.38B by June 2026. For 2025 as a whole, Lucid produced 17,840 vehicles against 15,841 deliveries, leaving roughly 2,000 unsold units at year end; the production-delivery gap widened to about 5,200+ units by mid-2026. Much of that overhang is the Gravity SUV specifically,

A disaster of epic proportions- almost $1.5 billion inventory, Winteroff and his tean did a cluster. And now, they have try and " give them away" with steep discounts. All he was doing was trying to reach stated production goal. Blindly producing and cutting service to save money. When you DONT have enough demand, you cut production. You dont cut service. Napoli inherited a mess. You think Lucid board said- hey, carry on producing? Winteroff couldn't accept reality that the Gravity he released, was a software nightmare and people were walking away.
 
gaskiller said:
Lucid's total inventory (all models, valued in dollars, not vehicle count) rose sharply through 2025 and into 2026: about $408M at end of 2024, $713M by June 2025, $1.11B by end of 2025, and peaking around $1.47B in Q1 2026 before easing slightly to $1.38B by June 2026. For 2025 as a whole, Lucid produced 17,840 vehicles against 15,841 deliveries, leaving roughly 2,000 unsold units at year end; the production-delivery gap widened to about 5,200+ units by mid-2026. Much of that overhang is the Gravity SUV specifically,

A disaster of epic proportions- almost $1.5 billion inventory, Winteroff and his tean did a cluster. And now, they have try and " give them away" with steep discounts. All he was doing was trying to reach stated production goal. Blindly producing and cutting service to save money. When you DONT have enough demand, you cut production. You dont cut service. Napoli inherited a mess. You think Lucid board said- hey, carry on producing? Winteroff couldn't accept reality that the Gravity he released, was a software nightmare and people were walking away.
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And yet i cannot find a Gravity with a config I like on their inventory page. Part of the problem is that I want only 5 seats, and they've obviously built more 7 seaters. But I wonder if they're not listing all the vehicles they actually have. I guess I'll have to ask an SA.
 
TahoeMichael said:
And yet i cannot find a Gravity with a config I like on their inventory page. Part of the problem is that I want only 5 seats, and they've obviously built more 7 seaters. But I wonder if they're not listing all the vehicles they actually have. I guess I'll have to ask an SA.
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Inventory looks different based on zip code. For some reason.
 
gaskiller said:
Inventory looks different based on zip code. For some reason.
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I always forget to select "Any miles" in the Search Within filter. That usually resolves the limited inventory issue for me.
 
They've definitely started moving inventory. When I placed my order last week there were over 100 white GGTs to choose from (though far fewer with options I wanted). There are now just 20 across the entire country, and only 7 have DDP2.

They are, however, still struggling to move touring inventory. Looks like there are still 120+ in white (38 with DDP2).
 
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