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Owners are waiting, please do the right thing!

Northpointe said:
The decision to brick a car typically follows the vehicle being declared a total loss. That determination is made by the insurer, not Lucid. If the economics dictate that a car can be repaired, it will be repaired.

When I buy or insure a vehicle I don't think about how a salvage determination or total loss claim might be handled in the future. If that were to occur I would hope for a prompt and fair claim resolution. And the ability to reclaim a salvage vehicle will have little if any impact on the cost to insure the vehicle. These are expensive cars to buy and insure. While you might be clamoring for a solution to this "problem" I don't think most owners are.
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The economics depend precisely on the very policies that the manufacturer sets and we have been discussing here. So yes, insurance declares it a total loss because it gets 0 bids from any of its repair facilities.

People may not look at the total loss scenario, but they absolutely look at cost to insure and depreciation.
If your competition is Bugatti then sure, sell fewer cars, make everything even more expensive, make the owners feel exclusive. But that market is crowded. I'm not sure Lucid will survive with that strategy.
 
The point here is that Lucid should make their EPC available online and create a path for folks to order parts online and get them shipped to their home if someone chooses to do the work themselves. Provided they have tools and ability to do so. Today such option does not exist. The only option is to have parts ordered through service center and you need to drive to pick them up in person. Lucid should look at this as additional option to create additional revenue stream and not a risk to canibalize their income from servicing cars through already overwhelmed service centers. I watched Rich Rebuilds as well and eagerly waiting for the response and potential to be able to fix my car myself down the road. If such option does not exists, I am really considering the option to get rid off the car once warranty expires.
 
suchluke said:
The point here is that Lucid should make their EPC available online and create a path for folks to order parts online and get them shipped to their home if someone chooses to do the work themselves. Provided they have tools and ability to do so. Today such option does not exist. The only option is to have parts ordered through service center and you need to drive to pick them up in person. Lucid should look at this as additional option to create additional revenue stream and not a risk to canibalize their income from servicing cars through already overwhelmed service centers. I watched Rich Rebuilds as well and eagerly waiting for the response and potential to be able to fix my car myself down the road. If such option does not exists, I am really considering the option to get rid off the car once warranty expires.
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I do believe the company will have no choice but to revisit this topic as they mature. I'm fortunate enough to live close to a service center. But if I owned the car where the closest SC was hundreds of miles away and the car was out of warranty it would be a major concern. Transportation costs to and from an SC alone could be $500 and I highly doubt that Lucid would eat that cost on vehicles outside of warranty. And obviously the cost of repairs is considerable on these cars. As more cars fall outside of warranty they'll need better economic solutions. These are far better arguments than being able to resurrect salvage vehicles. Although I do appreciate what Rich Rebuilds does and find his content to be entertaining.
 
TahoeMichael said:
I 100% expect Toyota to sell me parts for my Highlander. And they do. And it results in readily available repair services from a huge array of independent mechanics. It's not just about enabling someone to wrench on their own car. If Lucid was doing a bang-up job offering rapid repairs to their vehicles at reasonable prices, maybe I wouldn't see the need for them to emulate what Toyota does. But since they're failing pretty miserably on that front right now, publishing a service manual and selling spare parts would help improve the Lucid ownership experience. I agree with the OP.
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Lucid is a bespoke exotic EV maker…
 
There is a bit of misunderstanding when it comes to how a lot of people throw around the term “right to repair”. Lucid will sell parts that don’t require calibration or structural repairs or tapping in to remove it from a service mode that was triggered by an accident or put on manually by a certified body shop. I know first hand because I have bought parts from Lucid. If the vehicle is not in service mode you can also go to eBay and buy whatever parts you want from other vehicles that are being parted out or can go to a junkyard or equal local place to get the parts and you can install them yourself. I know this because I have done this as well. Lucid has certain things locked up for safety reasons to make sure the vehicles are safe to drive and safety fixes are done properly. I believe most newer vehicles are treated this way when the computers go in to a service mode. Sure you can get away with replacing parts that need calibration but why would you not want them calibrated? I have mixed emotions on this but I don’t know where the line should be drawn. I don’t think just anyone should tear into a vehicle but I do think mechanics should be able to.
 
Richard Silva said:
There is a bit of misunderstanding when it comes to how a lot of people throw around the term “right to repair”. Lucid will sell parts that don’t require calibration or structural repairs or tapping in to remove it from a service mode that was triggered by an accident or put on manually by a certified body shop. I know first hand because I have bought parts from Lucid. If the vehicle is not in service mode you can also go to eBay and buy whatever parts you want from other vehicles that are being parted out or can go to a junkyard or equal local place to get the parts and you can install them yourself. I know this because I have done this as well. Lucid has certain things locked up for safety reasons to make sure the vehicles are safe to drive and safety fixes are done properly. I believe most newer vehicles are treated this way when the computers go in to a service mode. Sure you can get away with replacing parts that need calibration but why would you not want them calibrated? I have mixed emotions on this but I don’t know where the line should be drawn. I don’t think just anyone should tear into a vehicle but I do think mechanics should be able to.
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Thank you, this is very informative.
If the 'service' mode triggers automatically, should a certified body shop be able to order parts and get Lucid to bring the car out of the service mode?
If I believe the story that Rich tells in one of his videos (and I don't know if I do, 100%, perhaps he isn't being 100% straight, who know), the body shop for a vehicle in question was unable to buy parts and there was no process that would allow that body shop to bring the car out of the service mode.
The body shop guy and Rich made claims that the vehicle had no structural damage and that Lucid never saw the car nor is there a process to get Lucid to inspect the car and make a call on its structural condition. They said Lucid declared that the car must be 'body swapped' at some point, but after that they just went silent making the car into a paperweight.
I'm not a body shop guy or an expert on car chassis integrity. To me, that damage looked purely cosmetic.
 
hangup said:
Thank you, this is very informative.
If the 'service' mode triggers automatically, should a certified body shop be able to order parts and get Lucid to bring the car out of the service mode?
If I believe the story that Rich tells in one of his videos (and I don't know if I do, 100%, perhaps he isn't being 100% straight, who know), the body shop for a vehicle in question was unable to buy parts and there was no process that would allow that body shop to bring the car out of the service mode.
The body shop guy and Rich made claims that the vehicle had no structural damage and that Lucid never saw the car nor is there a process to get Lucid to inspect the car and make a call on its structural condition. They said Lucid declared that the car must be 'body swapped' at some point, but after that they just went silent making the car into a paperweight.
I'm not a body shop guy or an expert on car chassis integrity. To me, that damage looked purely cosmetic.
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The body shop Rich went to go see was not a “Lucid certified repair/body shop”, nor is Rich (although he probably has more knowledge then most certified shops do). Lucid has a certification program that you can pay to get trained on repairs and provides you with all necessary jigs and computer software to tap into their systems…it is a buy in…so shops that want to be certified have to pay for the training, equipment, etc., and Lucid has to approve said shop to make sure they meet quality standards.
 
hangup said:
Thank you, this is very informative.
If the 'service' mode triggers automatically, should a certified body shop be able to order parts and get Lucid to bring the car out of the service mode?
If I believe the story that Rich tells in one of his videos (and I don't know if I do, 100%, perhaps he isn't being 100% straight, who know), the body shop for a vehicle in question was unable to buy parts and there was no process that would allow that body shop to bring the car out of the service mode.
The body shop guy and Rich made claims that the vehicle had no structural damage and that Lucid never saw the car nor is there a process to get Lucid to inspect the car and make a call on its structural condition. They said Lucid declared that the car must be 'body swapped' at some point, but after that they just went silent making the car into a paperweight.
I'm not a body shop guy or an expert on car chassis integrity. To me, that damage looked purely cosmetic.
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And yes, I’m assuming a certified shop looked at, put it into service mode, gave some crazy number to fix it, owner probably didn’t agree with it and said I’ll take my car back and get it fixed somewhere else. So the certified shop probably left it in service mode as an FU to the customer. The real problem is that a bumper with sensors technically needs recalibration after putting a just bumper on…”technically”…however if everything is lined up properly and the same sensors are used from the original bumper and just swapped out they should read the same.
 
Richard Silva said:
The body shop Rich went to go see was not a “Lucid certified repair/body shop”, nor is Rich (although he probably has more knowledge then most certified shops do). Lucid has a certification program that you can pay to get trained on repairs and provides you with all necessary jigs and computer software to tap into their systems…it is a buy in…so shops that want to be certified have to pay for the training, equipment, etc., and Lucid has to approve said shop to make sure they meet quality standards.
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This sounds great. I wonder why the body shop that the car is at wouldn't just work with one of the certified body shops if this is as simple as that. I doubt it would be more money than what a 'body swap' would cost, which is supposedly what the owner of the car agreed to. There is a disconnect there somewhere for me. It would be great if someone from Lucid shared their side of the story because by looking at the other side of the story I get an impression that Lucid cars are not repairable and I hope that's not true.
 
Richard Silva said:
And yes, I’m assuming a certified shop looked at, put it into service mode, gave some crazy number to fix it, owner probably didn’t agree with it and said I’ll take my car back and get it fixed somewhere else. So the certified shop probably left it in service mode as an FU to the customer. The real problem is that a bumper with sensors technically needs recalibration after putting a just bumper on…”technically”…however if everything is lined up properly and the same sensors are used from the original bumper and just swapped out they should read the same.
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if that was the case, couldn't the owner just got a different certified shop and get the car 'unlocked'?
 
Richard Silva said:
The real problem is that a bumper with sensors technically needs recalibration after putting a just bumper on…”technically”…however if everything is lined up properly and the same sensors are used from the original bumper and just swapped out they should read the same.
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No lawyer in the world would sign off on that with an ADAS system,
 
hangup said:
if that was the case, couldn't the owner just got a different certified shop and get the car 'unlocked'?
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Yes, if that is what the problem actually is, my guess is there is probably something else that is unknown…but only Lucid probably knows that…but they technically don’t owe the onlookers that answer. Obviously the owner should know or a certified repair shop. Rich I’m sure is just presenting the info he was given.
 
socktucker said:
No lawyer in the world would sign off on that with an ADAS system,
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Yeah not talking legal liability, I’m talking mechanically. Legally any lawyer/insurance company would find a reason not to if it keeps money in their pocket from a payout. I’m also not suggesting anyone skip out on a manufactured required calibration.
 
hangup said:
Here is a hypothetical scenario: you bought a brand new car from Lucid. you parked it properly in a perfectly legit parking space. someone hits it and drives away. no structural damage to the frame. however, you car if bricked permanently and Lucid, without ever seeing the car, first tells you that you can't buy any pats and that the car must be 'body swapped' which costs tens of thousands of dollars and when you AGREE to that, they go silent and still refuse to sell you any parts?
Does that sound completely fair to you?
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In your scenario why is it bricked?
 
hangup said:
Lucid can very well choose to make every car that had any kind of an accident a total loss because they can just brick them in software. The fact that they do this without ever looking at the actual car is telling, IMO.
That is one of the ways to 'handle' the situation.
But lets try to think what this means for Lucid.
What will this do insurance premiums for Lucid owners? What will this do to Lucid secondary market pricing? And finally what will that do to the primary market pricing?
Will new customers be more or less eager to buy a new Lucid if they know that:
1) it will cost significantly more to insure
2) it will depreciate like crazy
3) if there is ever an accident, they'll need to buy a new car

The decision Lucid makes on right to repair affects all 3.
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What evidence does anyone have that Lucid is doing this? My understanding is that Lucid WILL brick a car that INSURANCE has declared a total loss. Reflecting back to the Rich Rebuilds scenario, including the other guy he interviewed that purchased a salvage vehicle we only know what has happened AFTER they acquired the vehicles. We do not know what communication went on with INSURANCE prior to their acquisitions. We do not know if Lucid saw the vehicles or not. Once they've seen it and know the VIN they have no need or requirement to ever look at it again.

The rest of what you say I pretty much agree with. Assuming that this is what is happening in the Rich Rebuilds scenario is assuming things not in evidence.
 
Two absolutely factual occurrences within my long (and storied?) career in the auto industry...

In the late 1980s I was an Engineer in Powertrain Service Operations at General Motors. One of my early big projects was to set up the powertrain service program for the Corvette ZR1. Some elements of that service plan included...
  • Not every Chevrolet dealership could even order a ZR1. They had to have technicians on site who had completed training for servicing the ZR1. They also had to purchase and maintain onsite the special tools required for servicing the ZR1, especially the engine and transmission (my responsibility).
  • One of my jobs was to specify the toolset that every authorized dealer needed to service the engine and transmission and to design the service kits that included the parts, fasteners, sealants, and gaskets required to complete the specific repairs.
  • Over time we provided the training classes, shop tool sets, and service parts to non-dealer repairer who successfully completed the full training for all aspects of the car. There were not many who even asked.
Fast forward to 1994...by then I'm Director of Powertrain Service Operations and we need to put together a plan to take the ZR1 out of limited run production and establish a service plan to support customers beyond warranty. To cut to the chase...some of the more special parts were put under VIN control, meaning they could only be ordered by dealers / authorized repair centers that provided VIN and mileage for the vehicle(s) being repaired.

Fast forward to 2025...I'd retired from GM and was working as a consultant for a major industry information and data provider. One of our clients retained my team to do a study on expectations for repair costs for ADAS equipped vehicles involved in collisions. WOW!!! We learned a TON!! Focusing on most likely to occur accident types and looking into what it would take to repair them. Without getting into too much detail, the tooling, training and expertise required to recalibrate cameras, Lidar, and radar quickly become the most expensive part of the repair cost for what we have come to refer to as fender benders. If the bumper comes off, recalibration is almost always needed. Average repair costs for the most common accidents moved quickly into 4 digits and depending on the brand, ADAS level, and components involved, that first digit is more than likely NOT a 1. Can't provide anymore detail without violating NDA. The flip side of the coin, and one of the issues we were asked to study...the likelihood of having damage due to accident is greatly reduced due to the ADAS content of newer vehicles. Caveat...all the ADAS available in the market is not going to prevent your car getting banged while parked on the street or in a parking lot.
 
hangup said:
So what exactly do you agree with? Lucid hasn't said anything yet, they are still figuring it out.
No, this isn't about "junkyard YouTubers". This is about owners like me being able to get parts and tools when I need them. Every car will break down eventually.
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How many will repair their own EV? A dozen? It’s not of much significance. The rich guy is just looking for clicks. They can take their time deciding what’s best. More important things to figure out.
 
TahoeMichael said:
I 100% expect Toyota to sell me parts for my Highlander. And they do. And it results in readily available repair services from a huge array of independent mechanics. It's not just about enabling someone to wrench on their own car. If Lucid was doing a bang-up job offering rapid repairs to their vehicles at reasonable prices, maybe I wouldn't see the need for them to emulate what Toyota does. But since they're failing pretty miserably on that front right now, publishing a service manual and selling spare parts would help improve the Lucid ownership experience. I agree with the OP.
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Lucid makes technologically advanced vehicles with really tight fittings. Not a regular ICE car that you can easily repair. Right now, the EV market is in its infancy. I don’t blame for limiting this, perhaps in another 5-10 years, when established as a mature company and mature EV market, they could address this. It’s not that important as you think it is.
 
There's a whole genre that has emerged in online media that Rich Rebuilds is a part of. It's "I bought this car really cheap, lets see if I can get it to run?" Whether its Rich, Samcrac, Tyler Hoover or others, the formula is basically the same. And it's punctuated with, "we don't know why the car is in this condition or what crazy thing the prior owner did." The hook is seeing if the car can be brought back to life and/or justify what the content creator paid for it after (or if) they get it running. Depending on the storyteller they might even try to cut corners to really save a few bucks, "I got these Bentley parts from Wal-Mart, hope they work" or "you can save a few bucks if you bypass this part the car won't even know the difference."

Sometimes the car in question is a 90's throwback or maybe a more recent exotic that's been thoroughly abused. Rich takes it to a different level choosing to work on highly sophisticated modern cars with incredibly complex engineering, technology, and safety features. These are not your cars of yesterday and the knowledge of how they work (particularly safely) is far more limited. The equipment to properly diagnose, repair, and calibrate these cars is also limited. Car owners would not make the investment in tools and equipment to maintain these vehicles and there are few independent garages willing to make the leap. But Rich Rebuilds is willing to take on the challenge and with nothing more than Harbor Freight tools.

The bottom line is that these are not crusaders. They are entertainers who make their living by creating content. The mystery around their cheap cars keeps viewers engaged. The possibility that something can be brought back from the dead and/or sold off to make a buck or two fascinates us. It may be couched in the guise of "right to repair" to protect consumers but the real goal is to make it easier to produce more content.

Lucid and the EV industry will have to confront the need for more repair options and alternatives in the future. Having all work performed by a limited network of manufacture owned repair shops is not sustainable or scalable. As Lucid owners we know that first hand. To do this correctly it will require a major investment in training, education, tools and equipment by automakers and repairers alike. At the same time it does not mean that Lucid or any other automaker is obligated to support a system where unqualified and/or uncertified individuals are disassembling and reassembling highly advanced vehicles that have been declared total losses by insurers.
 
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