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On the fence

prgarg said:
Gotcha, that makes sense. As for the driver's screen, the R2's is still bigger than MY's (measuring a whooping zero inches) 😂
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Im a fan of the single center screen actually. Has never bothered me and I think it makes it easier having everything centralized. I also like the dual screen setup of the Gravity. But the tiny screen in front of the driver like on the R2 is useless to me.
 
steveairgt said:
Hi,
I’ve been a huge Lucid supporter for years. I own a 2022 AGT, stockholder, and run a large Lucid facebook group. I’ve people for years that Lucid won’t go bankrupt. They have tons of PIF funding. Saudis are building Lucid factory and a tech city around it.

I’m thinking of trading for the Gravity.

Now I’m starting to have second thoughts. Sales aren’t there. The future seems to be Cosmos. Could Lucid go the way of Tesla and eventually abandon the high end and just produce model 3/Y type cars.?

Will the Gravity be their last luxury car?

Thoughts?
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Nope….Musk lost interest in cars. Lucid wants to be a car company. You need aspirational vehicles, it draws people to the brand.
 
mike1121 said:
Price is definitely a factor. My wife uses our 23 MY to commute to work. The gravity is my daily and roadtrip with the dog vehicle. I was curious about the R2 as a potential commuter replacement for her. The suspension is still terrible (as it was on the R1S G1/2). You either feel like you are floating and wobbling all over or you feel every single bump while still not feeling planted. The seats were tiny and very uncomfortable. Leg room was terrible. (I’m 6’3 and I can roadtrip our MY without an issue). The driver screen was minuscule and the wheel blocked the view (like on a Model X). The wheel was also oversized for the cockpit space. The entire thing just felt cheap and plastic. If I want cheap and plastic, I can get another MY that I know will last years issue free and has a service network I can count on. I was honestly shocked by how bad the R2 was. I thought for sure it would blow my MY out of the water and it didn’t even come close. Say what you want about Tesla, they have created a phenomenal product. I hope Lucid can replicate that success with the Cosmos.

Edited to add: the wife has floated an Air to replace her Tesla down the road as a commuter. Lady has good taste. 😂
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Rivian engineering is not that great. They concentrated mostly on looks. Lucid blows them away in EV tech, performance, handling, efficiency and space. I drove the R1T when it came out, hated it. Head bobbing all over the place. Rivian is overrated, Lucid is underrated.
 
mike1121 said:
I test drove an R2 yesterday. Have test driven Gen 1/2 R1S also. I’m more concerned about Rivian than I am Lucid at this point. The product quality isn’t even close. The R2 ride and interior quality were abysmal. Seats were terrible. You could tell it was tossed together on the cheap.
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Rivian is cranking out R2s which apparently would be profitable from the start. The R1 is still selling quite well (and outselling the Gravity YTD). They have financial partnerships with VW, Amazon and now Uber - with their deal for the R2 worth more than the one with the Gravity. Their financials are almost strictly better on paper. So is their software. They also have way more service centers and showrooms that are expanding monthly. Lucid vehicles may be BETTER but I'd argue the ownership experience of a Rivian is better overall.

As for build quality, that is a matter of opinion, but for the price point, it is above average. My wife has a new Model Y Performance and it is a better vehicle than the R2 IMO but for those seeking an alternative and want nothing to do with Elon, the R2 is the only true other game in town. For under $60k, the R2 and MY Performance are absolute bargains for all that they offer.

Product quality goes a lot further than material choices and fit and finish. Software, availability of service, reliability and company stability also factor in. You can dislike the Rivian vehicles, but the companies aren't even in the same conversation anymore. Rivian said R2 will be released in 2026. It's here and being delivered every day. We don't even have a picture of the Cosmos yet. I just don't see how one can be more worried about Rivian than Lucid - and this is coming from a fan of both.
 
Spaceship said:
Rivian is cranking out R2s which apparently would be profitable from the start. The R1 is still selling quite well (and outselling the Gravity YTD). They have financial partnerships with VW, Amazon and now Uber - with their deal for the R2 worth more than the one with the Gravity. Their financials are almost strictly better on paper. So is their software. They also have way more service centers and showrooms that are expanding monthly. Lucid vehicles may be BETTER but I'd argue the ownership experience of a Rivian is better overall.

As for build quality, that is a matter of opinion, but for the price point, it is above average. My wife has a new Model Y Performance and it is a better vehicle than the R2 IMO but for those seeking an alternative and want nothing to do with Elon, the R2 is the only true other game in town. For under $60k, the R2 and MY Performance are absolute bargains for all that they offer.

Product quality goes a lot further than material choices and fit and finish. Software, availability of service, reliability and company stability also factor in. You can dislike the Rivian vehicles, but the companies aren't even in the same conversation anymore. Rivian said R2 will be released in 2026. It's here and being delivered every day. We don't even have a picture of the Cosmos yet. I just don't see how one can be more worried about Rivian than Lucid - and this is coming from a fan of both.
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Lucid saying they have enough cash to last “well into 2027” isn’t exactly the flex they must think it is. It’s August. They have the same cars and worse problems. It took 5 years to get this bad, and they’re going to turn it around before the run out of cash next year? I hope they’re lining up some sort of financing. Cosmos is delayed, and all they’ve released is a parts bin Gravity GTS. Not good.
 
socktucker said:
Lucid saying they have enough cash to last “well into 2027” isn’t exactly the flex they must think it is.
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It’s not a flex. It’s merely a required disclosure around liquidity. It’s intended to alert current and potential investors of their precarious financial picture absent a capital infusion.
 
socktucker said:
Lucid saying they have enough cash to last “well into 2027” isn’t exactly the flex they must think it is. It’s August. They have the same cars and worse problems. It took 5 years to get this bad, and they’re going to turn it around before the run out of cash next year? I hope they’re lining up some sort of financing. Cosmos is delayed, and all they’ve released is a parts bin Gravity GTS. Not good.
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Probably raising capital after Cosmos release. Bad time to raise when stock price is this low.
 
The_Don said:
Probably raising capital after Cosmos release. Bad time to raise when stock price is this low.
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Looks like they will need to do it before the Cosmos release
 
socktucker said:
Lucid saying they have enough cash to last “well into 2027” isn’t exactly the flex they must think it is. It’s August. They have the same cars and worse problems. It took 5 years to get this bad, and they’re going to turn it around before the run out of cash next year? I hope they’re lining up some sort of financing. Cosmos is delayed, and all they’ve released is a parts bin Gravity GTS. Not good.
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I think the Saudis will bail them out one last time as I do think they will at least want to see how the Cosmo plays out. If it weren't for them, I'd agree that cause for concern is legitemate at this point.
 
MJAir23TheGoat said:
The newer model Y/3 are vastly superior to the early models. Huge improvement great cars for the $
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Agreed. My wife has a new Model Y Performance and I get to drive it often. For the money, the material quality, tech and performance are leagues above anything in the segment. Gets the advertised range (even better) too. I am very impressed. I do not have experience with prior FSD but currently it's good enough that we pay the monthly subscription for it and it's basically a taxi for my wife and I find myself using it in boring commuting traffic.

It has actually made me even more picky about my next vehicle. Like the OP, the Gravity is on my short list but my concerns with Lucid still have me on hold. I at least want PAAK to be a thing.
 
Spaceship said:
Rivian is cranking out R2s which apparently would be profitable from the start. The R1 is still selling quite well (and outselling the Gravity YTD). They have financial partnerships with VW, Amazon and now Uber - with their deal for the R2 worth more than the one with the Gravity. Their financials are almost strictly better on paper. So is their software. They also have way more service centers and showrooms that are expanding monthly. Lucid vehicles may be BETTER but I'd argue the ownership experience of a Rivian is better overall.

As for build quality, that is a matter of opinion, but for the price point, it is above average. My wife has a new Model Y Performance and it is a better vehicle than the R2 IMO but for those seeking an alternative and want nothing to do with Elon, the R2 is the only true other game in town. For under $60k, the R2 and MY Performance are absolute bargains for all that they offer.

Product quality goes a lot further than material choices and fit and finish. Software, availability of service, reliability and company stability also factor in. You can dislike the Rivian vehicles, but the companies aren't even in the same conversation anymore. Rivian said R2 will be released in 2026. It's here and being delivered every day. We don't even have a picture of the Cosmos yet. I just don't see how one can be more worried about Rivian than Lucid - and this is coming from a fan of both.
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You all are talking like Rivian has some fantastic runway... its well into 1st half of 2028 after a recent 1.4B capital raise via share dilution....
 
illopp00 said:
You all are talking like Rivian has some fantastic runway... its well into 1st half of 2028 after a recent 1.4B capital raise via share dilution....
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That is plenty for the R2 ramp and the upcoming GA factory that opens in 2028, which will also be home for the R3, which will sell quite well IMO Unless something goes seriously wrong with the R2 launch, I think they'll be more than okay.

To be fair, I'm not too worried about Lucid either yet, but the road ahead looks a lot tougher for them comparatively.
 
You cannot compare the Tesla situation with Lucid in this case. The Tesla S has been around forever.. The Air actually outsold it recently, even with relatively anemic numbers.. Time for it to retire. The X had its own share of issues and Tesla has other 3 row options.

For the next year I cannot see anthing changing with Lucid... They need the Cosmos to be right, and will be built initially in the Saudi plant, so they will see that through... Doubt the PIF will abandon Lucid any time soon.
 
Spaceship said:
I think the Saudis will bail them out one last time as I do think they will at least want to see how the Cosmo plays out. If it weren't for them, I'd agree that cause for concern is legitemate at this point.
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The Saudis own nearly 60% of the outstanding shares and are building the Cosmos factory in their country. If anything they would be bailing themselves out. That's not to say that they won't be putting more capital in, but to clarify their motivation.
 
What is stopping them to show the Cosmos you dont need the software to be 100% just to show the car to the World. This makes me believe they are not ready with the car at all; its not just Software.
 
sri said:
What is stopping them to show the Cosmos you dont need the software to be 100% just to show the car to the World. This makes me believe they are not ready with the car at all; its not just Software.
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There’s little if any upside in drawing attention to the company by showcasing a product that won’t be available for another year. Anyone looking at Lucid at the moment is going to read stories around bankruptcy, software, and service problems. It’s far more advantageous to focus in the short term on fixing these problems and then demonstrating they are behind you before releasing a make or break vehicle.

As Silvio Napoli has acknowledged they erred in rushing the Air and Gravity to market. The current leadership seems focused on settling realistic expectations and being deliberate in rolling out Cosmos. As they should be.
 
Northpointe said:
There’s little if any upside in drawing attention to the company by showcasing a product that won’t be available for another year. Anyone looking at Lucid at the moment is going to read stories around bankruptcy, software, and service problems. It’s far more advantageous to focus in the short term on fixing these problems and then demonstrating they are behind you before releasing a make or break vehicle.

As Silvio Napoli has acknowledged they erred in rushing the Air and Gravity to market. The current leadership seems focused on settling realistic expectations and being deliberate in rolling out Cosmos. As they should be.
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But showing Cosmos can initiate some discussions and little bit move the negative stuff we see when you search for car. I have two of my friends who like Gravity and not moving forward just because all they see in the initial internet search about is bankruptcy .
If they show and talk about Cosmos and still work on it behind, that will put some some negativity out of the site.
 
sri said:
But showing Cosmos can initiate some discussions and little bit move the negative stuff we see when you search for car. I have two of my friends who like Gravity and not moving forward just because all they see in the initial internet search about is bankruptcy .
If they show and talk about Cosmos and still work on it behind, that will put some some negativity out of the site.
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I feel like they're causing a Streisand effect by making such a big deal about serving papers to that Portugese turd with an unimportant blog. I fear that a lot of people who hadn't heard of Lucid are now painfully aware that Lucid is on such thin ice that a rumor about their imminent bankruptcy was immediately believable. They should have just let it die.
 
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