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DeaneG said:
FWIW, the EX60's top trims are expected to ship approximately one year after its mid- and lower-range trims. Right now, Volvo is shipping the mid trim EX60 to customers who pre-ordered the lowest trim, because that trim isn't ready.
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So they offered customers a 'free' upgrade then? Why are companies continuing to allow pre-orders of non-existent not deliverable vehicles? Tesla announces Model Y L, you can get it in 3 months, no games no waiting no redactions....Just like Gravity Lunar Titanium disappearing...
 
illopp00 said:
So they offered customers a 'free' upgrade then? Why are companies continuing to allow pre-orders of non-existent not deliverable vehicles?...
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Yes, exactly. Outsiders are guessing that there was a late issue with the engineering around the lowest trim level (smallest battery size). Sometimes reality gets in the way of product plans and marketing.
 
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Some people who ordered the P6 are getting a free upgrade to the P10. Others are just having their orders delayed by months. Who gets the free upgrade and who doesn't is a mystery.
 
In some parts of L.A., Lucids are actually pretty common. There are three Fathom Blue Airs at my club, and the other day I accidentally got into someone else’s car thinking it was mine.

Meanwhile, one of the best things Lucid could do right now would be to issue a clear, affirmative statement—together with PIF—about its longer-term financial commitment to the company. Simply repeating that Lucid has enough runway to get “into 2027” is hardly reassuring to prospective buyers who are considering spending serious money on a car and wondering whether the company will be around to support it.
 
donfenn said:
In some parts of L.A., Lucids are actually pretty common. There are three Fathom Blue Airs at my club, and the other day I accidentally got into someone else’s car thinking it was mine.

Meanwhile, one of the best things Lucid could do right now would be to issue a clear, affirmative statement—together with PIF—about its longer-term financial commitment to the company. Simply repeating that Lucid has enough runway to get “into 2027” is hardly reassuring to prospective buyers who are considering spending serious money on a car and wondering whether the company will be around to support it.
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Hopefully they'll have more details at the next earnings report in a couple weeks
 
Northpointe said:
Ultimately Lucid’s viability will come down to how it fits into the PIF’s Vision 2030 plan and objectives. You can’t really evaluate the future prospects of the company without understanding the goals of its primary funding source. And the biggest criticism of the PIF is its lack of transparency.
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I actually think the PIF is more transparent than a typical institutional investor. A normal institutional investor will just be marking hard nosed decisions about the potential return on a stock they own, and they'll cut it (or increase their investment) without any warning to outsiders. There's an aspect of that with the PIF, of course. But their primary mandate is developing the domestic non-oil economy of Saudi Arabia, as the Saudi royal family would like to still be running a wealthy country when their oil runs out. So if you want a read on the PIF's level of on-going support for Lucid, pay a whole lot of attention to everything that's said about preparing for Cosmos production in Saudi Arabia. If there's credible progress towards producing commercially viable mid-range vehicles in Saudi Arabia, then sales woes of the Air and Gravity are unlikely to cause the PIF to back out. On the flip side, if the Cosmos is evaluated as a commercial flop, or if the ability to manufacture it in Saudi Arabia is called into question, then the PIF is much more likely to withdraw.
 
TahoeMichael said:
I actually think the PIF is more transparent than a typical institutional investor. A normal institutional investor will just be marking hard nosed decisions about the potential return on a stock they own, and they'll cut it (or increase their investment) without any warning to outsiders. There's an aspect of that with the PIF, of course. But their primary mandate is developing the domestic non-oil economy of Saudi Arabia, as the Saudi royal family would like to still be running a wealthy country when their oil runs out. So if you want a read on the PIF's level of on-going support for Lucid, pay a whole lot of attention to everything that's said about preparing for Cosmos production in Saudi Arabia. If there's credible progress towards producing commercially viable mid-range vehicles in Saudi Arabia, then sales woes of the Air and Gravity are unlikely to cause the PIF to back out. On the flip side, if the Cosmos is evaluated as a commercial flop, or if the ability to manufacture it in Saudi Arabia is called into question, then the PIF is much more likely to withdraw.
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I'd like to also add that Saudi Arabia has shown its commitment to grow a local automotive industry. Besides Lucid, they also have Hyundai and Ceer Motors (Saudi's first in-Saudi EV company). Losing Lucid would mean losing talent and knowledge that's meant to diffuse that expertise across the local talent pool
 
TahoeMichael said:
On the flip side, if the Cosmos is evaluated as a commercial flop, or if the ability to manufacture it in Saudi Arabia is called into question, then the PIF is much more likely to withdraw.
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The Saudis are taking a much more hard-nosed look at its PIF involvements. I could definitely see them scaling back their Lucid involvement if the Cosmos launch is a turd.
 
illopp00 said:
So they offered customers a 'free' upgrade then? Why are companies continuing to allow pre-orders of non-existent not deliverable vehicles?
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Not really "free." Volvo is messing with the numbers by offering financing and rebate incentives to keep loyal customers buying their cars. It's still very much a situation of "I'm paying $1,200/month for this vehicle rather than $1,200/month for that vehicle" rather than "I ordered a $60K Core trim and received an $80,000 Ultra trim" situation. Although they appear similar, I wouldn't read too much into it because vehicle pricing from manufacturers has always been a shell game.

There's no winning here. Pre-orders are outstripping demand. There's no real reason not to offer pre-orders to things that aren't ready to be sold, yet. When companies limit pre-orders they get criticized for artificially limiting them for profit motive. But in terms of why Volvo is prioritizing their higher trims for greater profitability that's relatively normal SOP for everyone else, as well.
 
A woman in the grocery store parking lot today saw me putting groceries in my Lucid Air frunk. She asked “Is that a new Tesla?”

I explained what Lucid is, noting it’s made in America, which she seemed to really like.

But this is the typical “layman” response to Lucid I’ve seen. They can immediately tell it’s special, but don’t know what it is until they see one in person and ask.
 
I just watched a video that was an interesting summary of how we got here... Basically EV is still equated to Tesla, and most layman don't even know the rest of the OEMs have an EV offering because they aren't in the market for a car, or the legacy stealerships don't know a damn thing about EVs and refuse to learn or attempt to educate and sell them...
 
I feel like EVs are a secret society. Once you are in the society, you recognize how many others are in the society. If you're not in the society, you're not even aware it exists. I am constantly amazed at how many EVs I see on the road these days.
 
L-Dude said:
I feel like EVs are a secret society. Once you are in the society, you recognize how many others are in the society. If you're not in the society, you're not even aware it exists. I am constantly amazed at how many EVs I see on the road these days.
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and yet it's only 2% of the operational cars on the road in the US and 7.5%-8% of new car registration
 
I still regularly have fun conversations when I park my Lucid at a rest stop or a gas station. Most of them involve people who know that Lucid exists and know they make a "fast" car. I have to tell them I have the "slow one," but they still seem to enjoy seeing one. People often seem to be surprised when I tell them they are made in Arizona. I don't know where people think they are made, but the message that Lucid builds cars in America hasn't gotten out.
 
BrianBigNFun said:
and yet it's only 2% of the operational cars on the road in the US and 7.5%-8% of new car registration
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It's very different in California with about three times higher numbers. But this still means only 20-25% of new vehicle registrations.
Locally, every model Y ever sold appears to be in my neighborhood.
 
no doubt- and likely much lower numbers in places like the deep south and rural states like Montana
DeaneG said:
It's very different in California with about three times higher numbers. But this still means only 20-25% of new vehicle registrations.
Locally, every model Y ever sold appears to be in my neighborhood.
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BrianBigNFun said:
and yet it's only 2% of the operational cars on the road in the US and 7.5%-8% of new car registration
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I think they are probably much more prevalent in higher income areas. Just a guess tho.
 
DeaneG said:
It's very different in California with about three times higher numbers. But this still means only 20-25% of new vehicle registrations.
Locally, every model Y ever sold appears to be in my neighborhood.
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Tesla has sold almost as many Model Ys as Toyota does with the RAV4 in the US, and globally, for the past couple of years so about 350k per year across the world. It's the default EV for people.
 
erigion said:
Tesla has sold almost as many Model Ys as Toyota does with the RAV4 in the US, and globally, for the past couple of years so about 350k per year across the world. It's the default EV for people.
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The iPhone of the automotive world. People buy them without even thinking about alternatives.
No one will ask them "why'd you buy that?"
 
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