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Q2 Earnings Call

illopp00 said:
I think they could keep the Air platform and shrink it down 6-9 inches and build a competitor to I3 and Model 3. Large luxury sedans don't make much sense anymore, an SUV can be priced higher because its's simply more car, and more space for stuff and more luxury. A small car is more efficient and would easily have better performance, range and efficiency, and Lucid has uniquely proven a smaller footprint doesn't mean tiny interior. In other words, if you want to chase range and efficiency specs, it's much easier done with a small car, especially with their new motors and improving battery tech.
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That's what the Cosmos/Earth platform is for -- shorter in length.

But it still makes more sense to build those as popular crossovers than far less popular sedans. There's 4 sedans in the US top 25 vehicles (Camry, Civic, Corolla, Model 3). The overwhelming reason they sell well is their low price. Civic and Corolla start in the mid-20's, Camry high 20's, M3 mid-30's. If any of those were 50k, they wouldn't be in the top 25. For that kind of money Americans want more space.

Lucid will never get down into the 30's. Probably not even the 40's.
 
dbsb3233 said:
That's what the Cosmos/Earth platform is for -- shorter in length.

But it still makes more sense to build those as popular crossovers than far less popular sedans. There's 4 sedans in the US top 25 vehicles (Camry, Civic, Corolla, Model 3). The overwhelming reason they sell well is their low price. Civic and Corolla start in the mid-20's, Camry high 20's, M3 mid-30's. If any of those were 50k, they wouldn't be in the top 25. For that kind of money Americans want more space.

Lucid will never get down into the 30's. Probably not even the 40's.
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I agree in general, but that doesn't mean there isn't a reasonable money to be made with all the A6s, 3 and 5 series, C, E classes which are all 50K+ otherwise you really can't be a non-boring brand with halo and performance credentials...

In other words, if your entire lineup is only boring Crossovers, nobody will care about it as well it's just lame.
 
sri said:
Seems we will see 20% down today. How much ever they sugar-coat stuff, they don't have enough money till Q2 2027 to release Cosmos. I believe another dilution is coming before Q3 and at this rate, it may be one more in 2027 Q1 or Q2 ☹️. I should have taken my loses and exited at $8
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You need to be patient. I’m bullish so just averaged down again.
 
Spaceship said:
This cannot be stressed enough. It is infuriating to see them expand abroad and yet neglect so many blindspots in their domestic market. Meanwhile Rivian is expanding both showrooms and service rapidly across the country. They are becoming more visible. This makes a huge difference. Lucid has also seen the footpring from Tesla. Not saying they should copy and paste, but they seem to be making a lot of errors that could have been avoided. They are doing too much at once. It is tough to watch, specially when you are really hoping the company succeeds.
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Going into Europe was a very bad move.
 
Spaceship said:
Great point. Specially with the Gravity. Being a prior owner of an R1S, that car always resonated well with people due to it being a boxy SUV. When showing my friends and family the Gravity as a vehicle of interest, the response was...less enthusiastic. Across the board.

When you break down the features, space and luxury of the Gravity, it becomes appealing but the initial bite is not there. My sister herself said "I wish I could have the Rivian looks with the Lucid interior". R1S sales are strong for this segment while the Gravity struggles for traction. On the spec sheet, should be other way around. But most people don't buy the spec sheet, they buy the emotion the vehicle gives them - at this price point, specially.

They could remedy this by releasing the Gravity X concept as a trim. I was hoping this was coming over a Gravity Sapphire or a different kind of performance variant. I hope they surprise us and unveil it in the coming weeks.

As a lurker, my holdup is what others have said as well. Software issues, concerns over the company's future and long service times are not an experience anyone wants to endure, specially at this price point, specially for a vehicle that is great on paper but merits a "meh" reaction in public. I'd probably take the leap for the Gravity X. The Gravity currently is appealing but one I seriously need to talk myself into before making pulling the trigger.
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As I understand it, while the spec sheet height for the R1S is a lot taller than the Gravity, the actually height of the body is only about 4" more for the R1S. The rest of the the height difference is just the suspension setup and how high off the ground the vehicle rides. It'd be interesting to compare a Gravity X side by side with the R1S. I suspect that a lot of people do just prefer the boxy profile of the R1S. But to me, form should follow function, and I highly value everything the Gravity design gives you, including interior cargo space, the long range, fast charging speed, and substantially better driving dynamics.

I personally think people are over-weighting how hard it is to sell the Gravity's design. The real issue is that it's a vehicle from a company that most people don't know much about, and when you go Google it, you quickly discover that the launch was seriously botched, and the vehicle was released in a (to me) completely unacceptable state. If you go look for the R1S, you find plenty of complaints, but they just don't rise to the same level as people feeling like the vehicle shouldn't even be on the market. I think the Gravity has turned the corner, but things live a long time on the internet, and there isn't enough new content with people raving about how great the vehicle is to drown out what was said last year and through the winter.
 
illopp00 said:
I agree in general, but that doesn't mean there isn't a reasonable money to be made with all the A6s, 3 and 5 series, C, E classes which are all 50K+ otherwise you really can't be a non-boring brand with halo and performance credentials...

In other words, if your entire lineup is only boring Crossovers, nobody will care about it as well it's just lame.
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They still have the Air sedan though, which is more sedans than Ford has (for instance). And Ford is magnitudes bigger (and more successful) than Lucid.

If Lucid ever gets big enough to have a broad lineup, then maybe a small sedan could make sense, but this is only their 3rd model (and platform), and their first mass market one (price-wise). They might even be able to put a sedan body on top of it in the future if it does really well and they have that luxury of broadening out. But at least for now, they need to break into the meat of the market. And at least in the US (probably Saudi Arabia too), I don't think a small sedan would get them anywhere close.

Hopefully by 2030 they'll be in much better position to branch out more. Their survivability likely rests on this upcoming platform.
 
TahoeMichael said:
I personally think people are over-weighting how hard it is to sell the Gravity's design. The real issue is that it's a vehicle from a company that most people don't know much about, and when you go Google it, you quickly discover that the launch was seriously botched, and the vehicle was released in a (to me) completely unacceptable state. If you go look for the R1S, you find plenty of complaints, but they just don't rise to the same level as people feeling like the vehicle shouldn't even be on the market. I think the Gravity has turned the corner, but things live a long time on the internet, and there isn't enough new content with people raving about how great the vehicle is to drown out what was said last year and through the winter.
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Yep. Outside of EV circles, almost no one has even heard of Lucid. I'm constantly getting "That's a nice looking vehicle. What is that?" I say "It's a Lucid Gravity". Then they ask "Who makes Lucid?". I'm sure everyone else here has probably had the same exchange many times.

Lucid really has nothing to make it stand out to a casual observer. Yeah, the Air and Gravity look fine from the outside, but only "fine". Nothing eye-catching (like the Rivian cartoon headlights). No cool pickup look. No cool colors like Rivian. Lucid's shine on the inside, and in their performance. Neither of which is apparent when just seeing one from the outside. Like many luxury cars, they have a subdued look, not a flashy look. Even the "LUCID" lettering on the car is subdued. They don't really advertise and they don't sell many vehicles. All adds up to a complete unknown to the vast majority of the public.
 
I'm much more hopeful with the new CEO so far than the old one.

The old executive management seemed to only know how to engineer. They did well at that, ex-software, but failed at nearly everything else. Everywhere I go, people are impressed with the car - but nobody knows what it is. "What is that? It looks great!" is the comment I get most often.

Beyond the software and service, they really need to learn how to sell. (I think Rivian has the same problem, but is doing a modestly better job). I have a friend who was looking for an EV at the same time we were. She was thinking Rivian - I told her I was looking at Lucid. Since then, I have ordered and gotten my Gravity, and it's great. In that same period, she has been to both Lucid and Rivian to test drive cars. Do you think anyone has ever gotten in touch with her to see what she thought or to follow up? She has been flabbergasted by the lack of attention from either manufacturer. That's a high end EV sale to a non-early adopter customer that has been at least delayed - possibly lost. Lucid needs to learn to "woo" their customers and teach them how life with an EV really is - the days of new techie early adopter customers is over. To reach this next tier of customer, they are going to have to do a much better job of identifying, reaching out to and targeting their market for sales. The days of customers walking in the door on their own with no effort are over.

BTW - I agree that Europe needed to be shuttered. I am in NYC, where I see occasional Lucids. I have been in Chicago for one week so far and haven't seen a single one. Forget Europe when you haven't even touched the 3rd largest city in America (with $5.00+ gas...)
 
illopp00 said:
I agree in general, but that doesn't mean there isn't a reasonable money to be made with all the A6s, 3 and 5 series, C, E classes which are all 50K+ otherwise you really can't be a non-boring brand with halo and performance credentials...

In other words, if your entire lineup is only boring Crossovers, nobody will care about it as well it's just lame.
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Exactly. There's a huge difference between the mass-market compact/mid-size sedan market, and the luxury-sport-sedan market.

The question for Lucid would have to be: is it worth developing a smaller sedan to compete with BMW 3-series, MB C-clasd, and Audi A5 in the smaller luxury sedan market?

Keeping in mind that the small luxury SUV class sells about 2.5x more in the US.
 
The reset was long overdue and Silvio was right, they burnt a lot of trust with owners and investors and now they need to earn it back. Anyone who doesn't know the brand is going to do an internet search and no doubt end up on Reddit, Facebook or in here and there's still horror stories that show up almost daily. When you're asking $80K+ for a car and people read those stories it will send them running for the hills.

But I was kind of also left scratching my head a little. It feels like the company is still suffering from a identity crisis and doesn't quite know who it wants to be.

Look at the current rollout and messaging:

Family SUV vs. Ultra-Performance - The whole recent push for the Gravity was built around being the ultimate luxury family hauler. Seven seats, massive cargo space, practical range, and everyday usability. Now, right on the heels of that, they’re teasing a "sportier / high-performance" Gravity for Monterey Car Week (almost certainly a Sapphire treatment pushing $200k+). Are they selling a practical family cruiser or a hyper SUV? Trying to talk to both family focused SUV buyers and hardcore track/performance enthusiasts at the same time will usually alienate both.

Price Perception Problem - The general consensus seems to be "great tech, but too expensive." People have been waiting for updates on the $50k Cosmos to see Lucid tackle the volume market. Instead of putting full operational spotlight on making affordable luxury a reality, we get news that Cosmos is pushed back and another halo model is taking center stage.

Diluting Brand Awareness - The masses don't need another $200,000 (I know some of you will disagree :) ) halo car to prove Lucid can build fast vehicles, the Air Sapphire already proved that. Chasing tiny, ultra high net worth niche markets with extreme variants does very little to build brand recognition or trust with mainstream buyers.

While I'm excited to see what they have to show at Monterey Car Week I'm just left a little perplexed and scratching my head if this was the smart play under the current circumstances. You can’t easily be ultra luxury performance + practical family haulers + an approachable mass market brand all at once without a clear, focused narrative. By trying to cater to every niche, the core message gets lost. 🤷‍♂️

Yes, it's easier to slap some additional parts on an existing model an re-market it vs delivering a whole new midsize platform but I don't know if this does more harm to the brand than good. Guess we'll see in the coming days :)
 
doubletwist said:
Exactly. There's a huge difference between the mass-market compact/mid-size sedan market, and the luxury-sport-sedan market.

The question for Lucid would have to be: is it worth developing a smaller sedan to compete with BMW 3-series, MB C-clasd, and Audi A5 in the smaller luxury sedan market?

Keeping in mind that the small luxury SUV class sells about 2.5x more in the US.
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the thing is that even some "crossovers" are really pushing it with how close they are to hatch / sedan heights.

For example, the Alpine A390 sportback (which could be one of Cosmos's competitors in Europe) is 1532mm tall, roughly two centimeters taller than the A290 hot hatch (1512 mm tall), which itself is based on the Renault 5 hatch.

Meanwhile, the Toyota Crown sedan is 1540mm tall. The Mercedes Benz S-class is about 1503mm tall

So it could be possible that the Cosmos ends up being close enough to a sedan's dimensions it could cover that market as well. But at this point I'm speculating until we have officially published measurements.
 
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HC_79 said:
The reset was long overdue and Silvio was right, they burnt a lot of trust with owners and investors and now they need to earn it back. Anyone who doesn't know the brand is going to do an internet search and no doubt end up on Reddit, Facebook or in here and there's still horror stories that show up almost daily. When you're asking $80K+ for a car and people read those stories it will send them running for the hills.

But I was kind of also left scratching my head a little. It feels like the company is still suffering from a identity crisis and doesn't quite know who it wants to be.

Look at the current rollout and messaging:

Family SUV vs. Ultra-Performance - The whole recent push for the Gravity was built around being the ultimate luxury family hauler. Seven seats, massive cargo space, practical range, and everyday usability. Now, right on the heels of that, they’re teasing a "sportier / high-performance" Gravity for Monterey Car Week (almost certainly a Sapphire treatment pushing $200k+). Are they selling a practical family cruiser or a hyper SUV? Trying to talk to both family focused SUV buyers and hardcore track/performance enthusiasts at the same time will usually alienate both.

Price Perception Problem - The general consensus seems to be "great tech, but too expensive." People have been waiting for updates on the $50k Cosmos to see Lucid tackle the volume market. Instead of putting full operational spotlight on making affordable luxury a reality, we get news that Cosmos is pushed back and another halo model is taking center stage.

Diluting Brand Awareness - The masses don't need another $200,000 (I know some of you will disagree :) ) halo car to prove Lucid can build fast vehicles, the Air Sapphire already proved that. Chasing tiny, ultra high net worth niche markets with extreme variants does very little to build brand recognition or trust with mainstream buyers.

While I'm excited to see what they have to show at Monterey Car Week I'm just left a little perplexed and scratching my head if this was the smart play under the current circumstances. You can’t easily be ultra luxury performance + practical family haulers + an approachable mass market brand all at once without a clear, focused narrative. By trying to cater to every niche, the core message gets lost. 🤷‍♂️

Yes, it's easier to slap some additional parts on an existing model an re-market it vs delivering a whole new midsize platform but I don't know if this does more harm to the brand than good. Guess we'll see in the coming days :)
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Fair points, personally I see Lucid's core identity to be based on driving dynamics, efficiency, and interior space.

As for another massive performance vehicle, I'm personally speculating that if a Gravity Sapphire / Gravity X would be in the works, it could be more like a learning opportunity / engineering exercise for Lucid as they develop the Cosmos. Much like how the Air Pure and Sapphire were developed in parallel and the learnings were cross-pollinated, I'm thinking that a high-performance Gravity (whether in Sapphire or in Gravity X version) is Lucid's way to learn and refine their knowledge about chassis and handling dynamics for taller and heavier vehicles.

They can then apply those learnings to Cosmos.

Again, my personal speculation
 
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HC_79 said:
The reset was long overdue and Silvio was right, they burnt a lot of trust with owners and investors and now they need to earn it back. Anyone who doesn't know the brand is going to do an internet search and no doubt end up on Reddit, Facebook or in here and there's still horror stories that show up almost daily. When you're asking $80K+ for a car and people read those stories it will send them running for the hills.

But I was kind of also left scratching my head a little. It feels like the company is still suffering from a identity crisis and doesn't quite know who it wants to be.

Look at the current rollout and messaging:

Family SUV vs. Ultra-Performance - The whole recent push for the Gravity was built around being the ultimate luxury family hauler. Seven seats, massive cargo space, practical range, and everyday usability. Now, right on the heels of that, they’re teasing a "sportier / high-performance" Gravity for Monterey Car Week (almost certainly a Sapphire treatment pushing $200k+). Are they selling a practical family cruiser or a hyper SUV? Trying to talk to both family focused SUV buyers and hardcore track/performance enthusiasts at the same time will usually alienate both.

Price Perception Problem - The general consensus seems to be "great tech, but too expensive." People have been waiting for updates on the $50k Cosmos to see Lucid tackle the volume market. Instead of putting full operational spotlight on making affordable luxury a reality, we get news that Cosmos is pushed back and another halo model is taking center stage.

Diluting Brand Awareness - The masses don't need another $200,000 (I know some of you will disagree :) ) halo car to prove Lucid can build fast vehicles, the Air Sapphire already proved that. Chasing tiny, ultra high net worth niche markets with extreme variants does very little to build brand recognition or trust with mainstream buyers.

While I'm excited to see what they have to show at Monterey Car Week I'm just left a little perplexed and scratching my head if this was the smart play under the current circumstances. You can’t easily be ultra luxury performance + practical family haulers + an approachable mass market brand all at once without a clear, focused narrative. By trying to cater to every niche, the core message gets lost. 🤷‍♂️

Yes, it's easier to slap some additional parts on an existing model an re-market it vs delivering a whole new midsize platform but I don't know if this does more harm to the brand than good. Guess we'll see in the coming days :)
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I agree with every point you've made. A Gravity Sapphire, if that's what's in the works, doesn't really move the needle. It does however bring some needed attention to the brand so it might be viewed as more of a marketing expense. And the R&D that went into it would largely be a sunk cost incurred by prior leadership. It creates a bit of a distraction while the company tries to get itself on more solid operational footing. The biggest thing the company currently has going for it is its performance ethos. But unfortunately that's been dragged down by lousy execution. In short, it may be the only positive news the company has to offer for some time. Because a message of "we're building fewer cars so we lose less money" doesn't really resonate with buyers.
 
I think 'sportier' is not the Sapphire, I think its the GravityX they've already revealed to the public once before. My recollection is that the reaction was quite positive to it.
 
People on this forum keep saying "high performance", but Mr. Napoli said "sportier". Very different things. Not a halo car, I hope an adventure-oriented Gravity to broaden the brand's appeal.
Some won't consider the Gravity due to its minivan styling and are not even willing to test drive it. Interestingly I've heard this more from women than men.
 
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DeaneG said:
People on this forum keep saying "high performance", but Mr. Napoli said "sportier". Very different things. Not a halo car, I hope an adventure-oriented Gravity to broaden the brand's appeal.
Some won't consider the Gravity due to its minivan styling and are not even willing to test drive it. Interestingly I've heard this more from women than men.
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Fair point. I'm still 50/50 between Gravity Sapphire or Gravity X. Regardless, the speculation I'm holding on to is that they'll be using this sportier Gravity as an engineering exercise to then apply their understanding of handling heavier and taller vehicles towards the midsize program
 
AZLucidGuy said:
I found this to be the most surprising announcement of the call. While I look forward to seeing the new model/trim, it seems that adding complexity to the already lower-than-desired Gravity production line is not directionally aligned with cost savings. Personally, I would favor a real deep (i.e. deeper than what they have) cut on the remaining 2026 Gravity inventory to clear that shadow as a priority. This will also put more Gravity on the road. That's where they need to be for word of mouth marketing rather than baking in the sun at Casa Grande.
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They don't just think this stuff up. They have definitely got positive research that shows it is a segment that is viable for them.
 
DeaneG said:
People on this forum keep saying "high performance", but Mr. Napoli said "sportier". Very different things. Not a halo car, I hope an adventure-oriented Gravity to broaden the brand's appeal.
Some won't consider the Gravity due to its minivan styling and are not even willing to test drive it. Interestingly I've heard this more from women than men.
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I think either option could be in the cards and Napoli’s choice of words was a bit nebulous. And that was likely by design to keep us guessing. But they need to be careful in not contradicting their messaging around production goals and reducing manufacturing complexity. The biggest short term test for the new leaders is centered around credibility and execution. Whatever vehicle is unveiled next week has to be produced and delivered in a way that doesn’t run afoul of what they said yesterday.
 
I think it would be very odd if Lucid spent some millions on the Gravity X prototype displayed at Pebble Beach last year, which was very well received, then forgot about it and decided to try to sell another $250K tri-motor.
 
DeaneG said:
I think it would be very odd if Lucid spent some millions on the Gravity X prototype displayed at Pebble Beach last year, which was very well received, then forgot about it and decided to try to sell another $250K tri-motor.
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Agree. This reveal needs to be production ready and perhaps even a car that can be ordered shortly thereafter. Anything less doesn’t make sense to me.

I also think that Lucid falls short in conveying a ‘family and adventure’ brand to the public the way Rivian does, and yet, the Cosmos and Earth will need to appeal very much to the family and adventure-seeking crowd (regardless of how little they may actually off road). This may be Lucid trying to build that vibe with their products which would be a welcome shift.
 
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