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Is full self driving being developed for Gravity?

I don’t know about you but I’ve licensed software before and it will work until the hardware dies.
Are you suggesting that if the car can’t phone home it won’t be able to drive itself? What if you lose connectivity, car stops?
I could see paying for maintenance to my perpetual license and when they obsolete it then the 7 years start. But always you have full use as it exists. Lots of companies make money exactly this way.
 
Aka-none said:
Are you suggesting that if the car can’t phone home it won’t be able to drive itself?
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That is exactly how it works, even today in Lucids. If you lose service, Drive Assist will no longer engage. I don’t think it suddenly disengages on you, but its accuracy is noticeably reduced. Cruise control will keep working because that is local only. Tesla FSD actually will work for a single trip offline as long as it can download the route in advance, but if you even make a wrong turn and end up on a different major road, you’re on your own. Lucid just doesn’t download routes like that yet, it downloads what’s around you constantly. And these are not the same as the maps you can put in “offline mode” for navigation, these are HD maps. Centimeter-scale mapping of individual lanes on roads specifically for ADAS. Another constantly updating service that Lucid is currently paying for on our behalf.
 
segbrk said:
Tesla FSD actually will work for a single trip offline as long as it can download the route in advance, but if you even make a wrong turn and end up on a different major road, you’re on your own.
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This isn't correct. Teslas can use FSD just fine without internet. You just lose real time traffic and rerouting but it'll happily plan a route and drive.
 
I'd be happy if they used whatever money they're spending to develop autonomy on getting everything else working better instead.
 
RandomDesign said:
This isn't correct. Teslas can use FSD just fine without internet. You just lose real time traffic and rerouting but it'll happily plan a route and drive.
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How does it plan a route without connectivity?
 
9point81 said:
How does it plan a route without connectivity?
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Most GPS devices will plan a route using local maps. It has been this way since the early 90s. My bike computer and running watch will plan a route without connectivity. It has only been recent things like phones and some cars that require online access for mapping.

TBH, I would not want a car that required connectivity to plan a route. If you need to map a destination while outside cellular coverage, you are screwed. This happened to me last year on the Blue Ridge parkway, and it is a problem in many large national parks. Local mapping is essential.
 
RandomDesign said:
This isn't correct. Teslas can use FSD just fine without internet. You just lose real time traffic and rerouting but it'll happily plan a route and drive.
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My apologies, apparently you're right. I read that online, but apparently I should have checked the facts. I guess Tesla is the exception? Further reading suggests both GM SuperCruise and Ford BlueCruise do require an active data connection just like Lucid.
 
segbrk said:
My apologies, apparently you're right. I read that online, but apparently I should have checked the facts. I guess Tesla is the exception? Further reading suggests both GM SuperCruise and Ford BlueCruise do require an active data connection just like Lucid.
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Yes Tesla (and maybe Rivian?) will probably be the only one that doesn't need data for at least the next few years because their whole premise is they don't pre-map roads.

Edit: Just to add more color, every other car will work temporarily without internet (like in tunnels), but they are electing not to have their cars run without mapping for safety reasons. Whether that is the "correct" approach is up for debate.
 
segbrk said:
Further reading suggests both GM SuperCruise and Ford BlueCruise do require an active data connection just like Lucid.
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I think BC and SC need a data plan for the service in general. But I don’t think it needs realtime access to plot a route. The data access maintains the local map data.
 
exxxviii said:
I think BC and SC need a data plan for the service in general. But I don’t think it needs realtime access to plot a route. The data access maintains the local map data.
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Plotting a route is a very different thing from "self-driving" it. Again this is just coming from internet research so I'll cede to actual experience, but for the case I can speak to: Lucid supports offline maps for navigation. You can plot a route and pick waypoints with no connectivity. Dream Drive will not engage without connectivity. This much I'm sure of, I tried multiple times in my Air. I've also externally observed it downloading piles of map data from HERE constantly as it goes. That HD map data is a whole different beast.
 
segbrk said:
Plotting a route is a very different thing from "self-driving" it. Again this is just coming from internet research so I'll cede to actual experience, but for the case I can speak to: Lucid supports offline maps for navigation. You can plot a route and pick waypoints with no connectivity. Dream Drive will not engage without connectivity. This much I'm sure of, I tried multiple times in my Air. I've also externally observed it downloading piles of map data from HERE constantly as it goes. That HD map data is a whole different beast.
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I’m active on the Lyriq forum (another car I am considering), so I’ll ask over there. I don’t think data connectivity could be a requirement, because it is not fast enough to be of any value during a drive.
 
segbrk said:
[…] Dream Drive will not engage without connectivity. This much I'm sure of, I tried multiple times in my Air. I've also externally observed it downloading piles of map data from HERE constantly as it goes. That HD map data is a whole different beast.
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I believe this is true for hands-free DDPro using high resolution map data, similar to GM SuperCruise and Ford BlueCruise.

However, I’m not sure connectivity is required for hands-on DDPro. For the Gravity, I can activate DD2Pro in hands-on mode on any road with lane markings. I’ve been in remote areas with limited cell coverage where my phone is showing SOS, yet I’m still able to drive with DDPro hands-on. At least, I think so, as I didn’t really pay attention.

This may explain the rapid switching from hands-free to hands-on then back to hands-free. I’m thinking temporary HD data interruption due to loss of signal is causing it to downgrade to hands-on mode, and once signal is established and HD map data updated, hands-free is restored.
 
It's a major problem is a self-driving systems requires connectivity to function. For the simple reason that we expect a higher level of reliability from autonomous driving than is delivered by any currently existing wireless data network. I can easily believe that a car manufacturer decided to require regular connectivity for their drive assistance anyway, because these systems are under active development and they need to both monitor how well they're working and collect data from real-world performance to improve it.

I do think that subscription fees are likely to be required for these systems by most manufacturers. We've seen huge sums of money poured into developing them, and they're going to want to make money on that investment. Someday the technology may be mature enough to not require deep ongoing investment. But I'll bet the companies will try to habituate consumers to paying monthly fees for them even, and will try to continue monthly fees even after the economics of the product don't require that anymore.
 
exxxviii said:
I’m active on the Lyriq forum (another car I am considering), so I’ll ask over there. I don’t think data connectivity could be a requirement, because it is not fast enough to be of any value during a drive.
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I agree, everything should happen at the car level
A map will be useful to create a route but the actual driving is on the car where it can see and respond in real time.
Collecting telemetry for debugging, support, etc is different. You want to sell me a license fine but there is no need for the car to phone home.
 
As someone said above, I believe the “issue” is Lucid and others, only allow hands free on pre drawn/approved/whatever roads. So the car has to know what roads are approved and has to have up to date info.

Tesla FSD seems to be “seeing” and processing in real time, which you can see by how it “draws” versus the video game like appearance on Lucid.

Rivian is somewhere in between.

Regardless, I don’t care for subscriptions either, but I want the features and realize the company needs to make money and that’s the model. Comparing it to a phone isn’t accurate. I think you have to look at Tesla and Rivian, etc.
 
Ron_Burgundy said:
As someone said above, I believe the “issue” is Lucid and others, only allow hands free on pre drawn/approved/whatever roads. So the car has to know what roads are approved and has to have up to date info […]
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I think this is the case today for hands-free, but the Nvidia development work for FSD doesn’t require high resolution maps. Since Lucid is partnering with Nvidia, I’m hoping it’s only a matter of time before that software stack is rolled out - hopefully for the Gravity and not just Cosmos.
 
Saksak said:
I think this is the case today for hands-free, but the Nvidia development work for FSD doesn’t require high resolution maps. Since Lucid is partnering with Nvidia, I’m hoping it’s only a matter of time before that software stack is rolled out - hopefully for the Gravity and not just Cosmos.
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I feel like Lucid was pretty clear in that investor day that 2++ was it there’s no “FSD” equivalent for Gravity and perhaps Level 3 or 4 for Cosmos. Whatever it is, it was very clear Cosmos would be more capable with respect to ADAS. Which, for me, is fine.
 
segbrk said:
Could be.

FSD is 2++. Eyes on, driver responsibility.
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TBD. FSD literally goes point to point. Stopping at stop signs, getting off at exits, etc as folks know. We don’t know what 2++ will really do as it’s Lucid’s own definition. It would have to be massive steps up from the hands off, eyes on we have now for Gravity.

Hands off, eyes on is only for certain highways right now. I love it. But it’s a long way from FSD. Which, for me, is fine.

For now, I need apple key more than more ADAS. I hate carrying a fob.
 
segbrk said:
My apologies, apparently you're right. I read that online, but apparently I should have checked the facts. I guess Tesla is the exception? Further reading suggests both GM SuperCruise and Ford BlueCruise do require an active data connection just like Lucid.
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Does Lucid require connectivity to plan a route? I know on our Gravity the sales associate said they downloaded the California maps. So I think there is a way to download maps to the gravity.
 
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