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US carmakers should be terrified, including Lucid

dscafetta said:
Lucid could compete it they would just deliver what they promised 4 years ago.
Lucid made a fatal error by abandoning their base of early adopters who were promised V2H, hands free driving, and advertised range that can only be achieved when going downhill with a 30mph wind at their back.
I love my touring, but Lucid deserves what they get...
Please no snowflake responses. It is too old...
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V2H doesn’t sell cars, so is a low priority. Hands free is overblown, not ready for prime time unless you don’t mind increasing your risk of an accident, range- you can blame the EPA for their testing cycles.
 
liggy said:
I would have never ever thought I would consider a Chinese car.

This one might change my mind. And Denza is much better than saying "how do you like my YangWang!?!" :D

Irritating to not be able to walk into a Porsche dealership and actually order a GT3 Touring.

www.carscoops.com

BYD's New Denza Z More Than Doubles A 911 Turbo S's Power For Less Than GTS Money | Carscoops

BYD's premium brand has unveiled a 217 mph electric supercar that undercuts European exotics by a huge margin
www.carscoops.com www.carscoops.com
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Guess why Porsche sales collapsed in China? Coming to a theatre near you!

This will be reciprocated in Europe and US very soon.
 
gaskiller said:
Guess why Porsche sales collapsed in China? Coming to a theatre near you!

This will be reciprocated in Europe and US very soon.
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It'll be interesting to see it play out.

I did get an allocation for a 911T but ulitimately turned it down. In the meantime the cost for my build went from $138 to $158 over the span of 6 months due to the tariffs and Porsche playing the velvet rope marketing game. Even at $158K there were multiple options that were not allowed on the T version. That was annoying too.
 
gaskiller said:
Guess why Porsche sales collapsed in China? Coming to a theatre near you!
This will be reciprocated in Europe and US very soon.
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??? The US won't be allowing Chinese cars in any time soon.
European automakers are suffering due to Chinese imports, particularly VW.
 
dbsb3233 said:
The drop from 8% EV market share to 6%, you mean? Yes, by ending the $7500 credit (subsidies), CAFE mandates, emissions credits (extortion), and talk of ICE bans.

But those were all artificial market manipulators. Now we're seeing the real market. I think it would be more accurate to say the 8% was artificially high because government manipulation, and the 6% is more normal.

I do agree that it will naturally begin to increase again. EVs are slowly getting better and more cost competitive. But slowly. Same with charging infrastructure. EVs will be the majority eventually. But I don't think "eventually" is near term like many predict. (And have been predicting since about 2015). I suspect this will be measured in decades, not years.
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All depends on how long we keep subsidizing light trucks and aub’s as a truck and less like the car they usually are.
Look at current versions they are one toilet away from being a motorhome.
 
dbsb3233 said:
And built it at low cost. That's the main problem for US manufacturers (European too). They can build great EVs. They just usually can't build them at low enough cost (Tesla being the exception).
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How cheap is your labor? Willing to live off a Chinese income?
 
DeaneG said:
??? The US won't be allowing Chinese cars in any time soon.
European automakers are suffering due to Chinese imports, particularly VW.
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Main reason Porsche lost all profits is loss in China sales, not Chinese vehicles selling in Europe.

As more compelling EVs come out in US you will see their sales drop more.
 
martinjlm said:
I addressed most of this in post #140. Other than that I will point out that every time the question is put in front of Mary Barra she says
  1. GM is still committed to an all-electric future
  2. GM will no longer put a date stamp on when that will happen but will continue to develop product with that eventuality in mind.
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Then they will always be behind pure EV makers. You can’t make a world beating EV if you take your sweet time.
 
gaskiller said:
Then they will always be behind pure EV makers. You can’t make a world beating EV if you take your sweet time.
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No way to know that. It's not a race. But you do need to survive financially to get there. The cash cow for legacy is ICE and hybrid. Making money is crucial to that end.

Legacy does have a big cost structure problem though.
 
Aka-none said:
How cheap is your labor? Willing to live off a Chinese income?
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You’re thinking of China as it existed a decade ago. The Chinese have been far more aggressive in replacing workers with automated processes commonly known as “dark factories.” They also aren’t burdened by legacy liabilities like pensions and retiree health care. That’s what we’re competing with.

 
gaskiller said:
Then they will always be behind pure EV makers. You can’t make a world beating EV if you take your sweet time.
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Beg to differ. They make a world beating hyper car even though the majority of their portfolio are trucks and SUVs. The EVs that GM has on the ground now are pretty darn good and getting better. Cadillac is already selling more EVs than ICE.
 
BrianBigNFun said:
I am impressed with the battery tech and charging speeds I've seen recently from China - it was damn close to filling a gas car

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I’ll be impressed when I see China demonstrate battery longevity along with these high charging rates. I recently watched a video where they reached the conclusion that for the overwhelming majority of EV owners, super charging speed is nowhere near the top of their wish list.
 
“The world’s tallest man is in China.”
“So much for keeping our secrets up high.”

Kudos if you get the reference.
 
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